[EcoBus.] MB1114. Bi-Carburation

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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

When the engine starts warming up with coolant above 70°C, you can press the magic button.
After a while, temperature will rise over 40°C: it takes both time and requirement for engine power.
With experience, you will see that WVO temperature rises with summer temperatures and use of the full throttle for uphill roads.
Push the mùagic button again before arrival (straight forward) or for low power requirements like downhill or idle even if WVO temperature is OK.
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :When the engine starts warming up with coolant above 70°C, you can press the magic button.
After a while, temperature will rise over 40°C: it takes both time and requirement for engine power.
With experience, you will see that WVO temperature rises with summer temperatures and use of the full throttle for uphill roads.
Push the mùagic button again before arrival (straight forward) or for low power requirements like downhill or idle even if WVO temperature is OK.
Done, even is WVO temperature is ok I should go back to Diesel.
Will it be posible not to do that in short downhills?

Thankssss
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Tibo1987 a écrit :Hey alma
most of us will tell you values between 70 et 80°C celsius
the fact is the higher temperature is the best for viscosity (= pump safety) and combustion (= engine safety) ..
if you dont heat electrical (what most people dont) then you cannot go over the engine coolant temperature which is somewhere around 80 to 90°C.
What are you up to for your heating troubles ?
Tibo,

I was planning to add this one, don't know if it would be enough with 100w or I need 200w
http://www.wvodesigns.com/fuel-filter-h ... large.html

And add a heat exchanger.
http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=HX1230
'
What do you think about it?!?!

love peace
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

AlmaSana a écrit :
Tibo1987 a écrit :Hey alma
most of us will tell you values between 70 et 80°C celsius
the fact is the higher temperature is the best for viscosity (= pump safety) and combustion (= engine safety) ..
if you dont heat electrical (what most people dont) then you cannot go over the engine coolant temperature which is somewhere around 80 to 90°C.
What are you up to for your heating troubles ?
Tibo,

I was planning to add this one, don't know if it would be enough with 100w or I need 200w
http://www.wvodesigns.com/fuel-filter-h ... large.html

And add a heat exchanger.
http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=HX1230
'
What do you think about it?!?!

love peace
Tibo, should I buy those?
100w or 200w?
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Tibo1987 »

Hey
hm i would say the electrical filter heater is not usefull in your case because you will have to wait for the engine to be hot for running on oil, thus the coolant will be hot and a heat exchanger will be much more efficient
you can keep your home made exchanger and put in serie the plate exchanger you want to buy
by the way, i bet you can find a better price for this try looking here
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?ca ... +exchanger
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

AlmaSana a écrit : in short downhills?
When you press the magic button, it takes some time to switch from 100% diesel to 100% WVO and vice versa in the fuel injectors.
The volume of current fuel after the 3 way valve must go through the engine and this depends on the actual fuel consumption.
Going downhill or idling means rather low fuel consumption. It will probably take 1 to 3 minutes to swap fuel after the magic button...
So idling or downhill needs to be fairly long to be worth pressing the magic button.
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :
AlmaSana a écrit : in short downhills?
When you press the magic button, it takes some time to switch from 100% diesel to 100% WVO and vice versa in the fuel injectors.
The volume of current fuel after the 3 way valve must go through the engine and this depends on the actual fuel consumption.
Going downhill or idling means rather low fuel consumption. It will probably take 1 to 3 minutes to swap fuel after the magic button...
So idling or downhill needs to be fairly long to be worth pressing the magic button.
Thanks a lot my friend! The 3 way solenoid is really close to the pump, 15 hose cm.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Tibo1987 a écrit :Hey
hm i would say the electrical filter heater is not usefull in your case because you will have to wait for the engine to be hot for running on oil, thus the coolant will be hot and a heat exchanger will be much more efficient
you can keep your home made exchanger and put in serie the plate exchanger you want to buy
by the way, i bet you can find a better price for this try looking here
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?ca ... +exchanger
I thought it would be useful because the filter is after the exchanger,
So I thought I could heat the filter because 500ml of oil will be there cold
before I push the magic button..

I will put the new heat exchanger in serie..
And its the same price at dudadiesel than alieexpress,

thanks!
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

AlmaSana a écrit :
Tibo1987 a écrit :Hey
hm i would say the electrical filter heater is not usefull in your case because you will have to wait for the engine to be hot for running on oil, thus the coolant will be hot and a heat exchanger will be much more efficient
you can keep your home made exchanger and put in serie the plate exchanger you want to buy
by the way, i bet you can find a better price for this try looking here
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?ca ... +exchanger
I thought it would be useful because the filter is after the exchanger,
So I thought I could heat the filter because 500ml of oil will be there cold
before I push the magic button..

I will put the new heat exchanger in serie..
And its the same price at dudadiesel than alieexpress,

thanks!
Hello guys, I realized that I could connect both heat exchangers in serie as you said.
One of them could be before the filter and the other one after :)

So no need of 12v heat exchanger..

What do you think joumpy an tibo87 ?
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Tibo1987 »

Yeah ;
well I dont know really whats would be best,
I think for filter durability, the hotter the oil gets in the best, that means
home made exchanger --> 30 plates heat exchanger --> filter --> valve
of course the oil will cool down a bit in the filter, but it should not go down more than 10 - 15 °C ; so you 'd probably get oil in the pump around 60 - 65 °C which is really good.
Another option would be to preheat the oil pass it through the filter and then heat it high
home made exchanger --> filter --> 30 plates heat exchanger --> valve

Of course when you will connect the exchangers together, you need to pay attention to the temperature gradient,
oil and water should flow opposite direction, for the hottest oil to exchange heat with the hottest coolant etc.

like this

oil ------------------------> home made exchanger --> filter --> 30 plates exchanger --------->
coolant water pump in <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------engine out

am I readable ?
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Tibo1987 a écrit :Yeah ;
well I dont know really whats would be best,
I think for filter durability, the hotter the oil gets in the best, that means
home made exchanger --> 30 plates heat exchanger --> filter --> valve
of course the oil will cool down a bit in the filter, but it should not go down more than 10 - 15 °C ; so you 'd probably get oil in the pump around 60 - 65 °C which is really good.
Another option would be to preheat the oil pass it through the filter and then heat it high
home made exchanger --> filter --> 30 plates heat exchanger --> valve

Of course when you will connect the exchangers together, you need to pay attention to the temperature gradient,
oil and water should flow opposite direction, for the hottest oil to exchange heat with the hottest coolant etc.

like this

oil ------------------------> home made exchanger --> filter --> 30 plates exchanger --------->
coolant water pump in <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------engine out

am I readable ?
Perfectly readable, God bless
Il send more info around the 15/16 of march when the heat exchanger arrives :)
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Tibo1987 »

sounds good ! good luck
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Hello family

my heat exchanger is still at customs, 4 months.
im really far from capital city so a friend is helping
winter and snow had passed.

time to work!
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Hello my friends.
I am back again.
I really want to make this work.

Image

10 months ago I travelled 1600km
50% Diesel 50%Oil during fall
(With original system and mixture of wvo and diesel)

BUT! The tank got cleaned with the oil
and started loosing it on the route.
So, i was happy to have many 20 liter tanks.
Extra hose and was able to get home....
It was nice to see how oil cleans everything.
The oil pump vas ok, it didnt got cleaned in
the seals, so no air in take.

Now, i finally bought another heat exchanger
in my country as the one that stayed in customs is still there.

And I want to make this work with the bi caburation system.
I am posting the system I used to have.

I am attaching an image of how my system looked like.
For the trip i finally installed everything as it was originally.
The diferrence is that in the original way the diesel arrives
to the feed pump in the oil pump and then goes to
diesel filters and from there to the pump.

In the system I tried, it goes diesel to the filters and then to the feed pump
and from there to the lineal oil pump. A guy with a pump
shop told me i was loosing 3 bars of preassure.
Because the feed pump is made to push not to suck.
And it sends 3 bars to the diesel filters.
I was doing this so i could use only one valve for the tank-motor way.

I was having troubles because it will always appear air
in the system and i was not able to take it out. Right after the feed pump.
And there was lost of power i was filling. (Always running with diesel)
This is the system i was trying:

Image


Why im coming to you? Need help to arrange system and use less valvs.
I appreacite all your love and help

Because i was filling that difference in power i would like to keep
the original system. The think is that i have only 2 solenoid 2 way valvs.
I could buy more but they are too expensive for me.
(I was watching an image of a system I found somewhere over the internet,
that i have here at my computer, and they just only use one valve for income,
I am sure there is another one for engine and pump return)

Image

So the two ways I thought to use 2 valvs in the income tanks-motor way
are this one:

First one: Install it as the one I was trying to use and was having trouble.

Image


But, lowering the diesel filters below the height of the feed pump.
So i can pump the air out of the system.

Image

I also added to this image the second exchange temperature device. A beer one.
Remeber I used to have a home made one, that could never try.

Image


Because I was never able to see if the temperature from the oil was rissing.
This happened because i never pushed the button.
I was heating the engine
Getting down the bus.
Manually pumping the oil.. and nothing would change at the meassurement device.
You told me that liquids should be flowing to happen.

Please see it and check.
I am asking where to put the home made exchange and the beer one.
Wich one first. And wich water should both of them exchange with.
Example: "Hey Soul(thats me) I think you should put first beer exchanger with hottest
water coming out of the engine and the home made one with the water flowing out
of the beer exchanger"

And the other way i thought is this one:
Thar respects the original system, where diesel arrives first
to feed pump and then to diesel filter.
What do you think about it when it passes the second valve? Its ok?

Image

God bless family
we will get stronger after this strange thing going arround.
Love and respect

Alma(Soul)
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

oil ------------------------> home made exchanger --> filter --> 30 plates exchanger --------->
coolant water pump in <-----------------------------------------------------------------------------engine out

I found this answer in an older post of this same topic, here above.
So this is the way i will do it.

Thanks still need help with system.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par boomer »

hi Alma, I do hope that "this strange thing going around" will get us stronger... But let's talk mechanical for now...
Nice bus by the way!

You have a lot of interrogations here :) . I'll try to answer some of them...

first some questions:
Could you tell me how "the computer emergency automatic solenoid valve for when the engine Heats", that you have shown an image before, works?
Do you have a drawing of the gasoline path of your engine? Is it like this one:

[img][img]https://i.postimg.cc/s1N3XNt8/circuit-gasoil.jpg[/img][/img]

On top of your gasoline filter you may have a "Überströmventil" that is there to get rid of the air when the gasoline goes through it and send the bubbles back to your tank where it can escape. When you tried your system did you condemn it? It might be possible that the air comes from there if you suck through it. This "Überströmventil" is also important if you have a double-acting feed pump: this type of pump is not self regulated so it’s important to let a way out for the gasoline if the filter gets clogged. I think yours is a simple-acting (self regulated) but not sure about it, you’d better check.

Your OM 352 is mounted on MB 1113 and others, some Unimog’s, in the 1114 it is the OM 366 like
on my MB 814. I have a notice of the Unimog engine that can be useful (I’m afraid it’s in french...), I’ll email it to you, just give me your email by MP.

If you can read a little french here is some posts that talk about this particular injection system:
(but maybe you’ve already seen them…)

http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=134&t=17284
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=11300
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=11160
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php ... 14#p262252
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=20977

The image of the system that you have found on the internet is what we call “looped”, if you look at it carefully you can see a mention: “fuel return (looped from engine)”. That means that the return doesn't go back to the tank, so it doesn’t need an other 3 way valve.

good luck whith your researches, hesitation and choices :read2:
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Thanks a lot my friend for your time and support.
boomer a écrit : first some questions:
Could you tell me how "the computer emergency automatic solenoid valve for when the engine Heats", that you have shown an image before, works?
Do you have a drawing of the gasoline path of your engine? Is it like this one:

Image[/img]
The computer stops the engine when the motor heats heated.
So it has some sensors, one to the motor block, another one to the water.
When one of them gets heated to much. It will cut the diesel.
Its right before the pump.
boomer a écrit :On top of your gasoline filter you may have a "Überströmventil" that is there to get rid of the air when the gasoline goes through it and send the bubbles back to your tank where it can escape. When you tried your system did you condemn it? It might be possible that the air comes from there if you suck through it. This "Überströmventil" is also important if you have a double-acting feed pump: this type of pump is not self regulated so it’s important to let a way out for the gasoline if the filter gets clogged. I think yours is a simple-acting (self regulated) but not sure about it, you’d better check.
I do have the "Überströmventil", air was getting stuck here when i modified the system.
Image


Pump Model:
Image

Were you able to understand the diferrence between both systems I showed?

It used to be like this (Air wouldnt dissapear from where i showed u above, even after leaking all out, it will appear again)
Image

Thinking of this modification, changing height of diesel filter
Image

Thinking of this one too:
Image
boomer a écrit :Your OM 352 is mounted on MB 1113 and others, some Unimog’s, in the 1114 it is the OM 366 like
on my MB 814. I have a notice of the Unimog engine that can be useful (I’m afraid it’s in french...), I’ll email it to you, just give me your email by MP.
My bus is called here L/312-48. It was a passeangers bus long time ago, until 1973.
alma.bhakti@gmail.com
boomer a écrit :If you can read a little french here is some posts that talk about this particular injection system:
(but maybe you’ve already seen them…)

http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=134&t=17284
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=11300
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=142&t=11160
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php ... 14#p262252
http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=20977

The image of the system that you have found on the internet is what we call “looped”, if you look at it carefully you can see a mention: “fuel return (looped from engine)”. That means that the return doesn't go back to the tank, so it doesn’t need an other 3 way valve.
Ill let Google translate them.
And i got the "looped" system, I am able to do that?
Why it comes "not looped" from "factory".

If i loop it is dangerous, because if i decide to change to diesel.
It will still have oil in the "looped" return.

God bless.
AlmaSana
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Hello my friends.
I found this one from Tibo 1987.
Could you explain to me? I dont understand initials at the diagram:
PG? EV3? FHV? AE? No idea what they mean.

Image

god bless.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par madguss »

Pg: booster pump
EV3: 3 way solenoid valve
FHV: VEGETABLE FILTER
AE: non-return valve
Zx écrabouillé par un camion: on passe au confort supérieur: La Xantia 1.9 TD
Kit bi-réservoir

Xantia explosée par une Twingo... Level up: la C5 HDI 2 L 140 CV

Mon post : http://www.oliomobile.org/viewtopic.php ... &start=260
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par boomer »

Hi,
I’ve looked at the photos you’ve send of your diesel filters and noticed that you didn’t plug the return nuzzle that is on top the same way as it was (the one with the uberstromventil). It should be on top of the second filter (the last one before the injection pomp) so it can get rid of the bubbles created by heat in both filters and go back to your tank. I’m not sure because we can’t see it well on the photos but did you plug the return of your injection pump on top of this filter ? If it is you should not run your engine like this, if I understand well it will increase the pressure inside your injection pump...

Image

Image

A work that you can do is to draw us the original fuel path of your engine if you don’t find it… It could help.

If you want to pull through those filters the most important thing to do is to condemn this uberstromventil (soupape ou étrangleur de décharge in french, I don’t know in English). And then to pump the air out with your added bulb pump through the two screws on top of your filters (the one were the uberstromventil was plugged and the one were you’ve plugged the uberstromventil) If you don’t have the specials screws that are made for this, the ones shown on this image:

Image

To me it won’t help putting the filters lower…


My guess why the diesel path doesn’t come looped from the factory is because of the bubbles problem and that the diesel needs to be cooled. With veg oil heat is your friend (in an acceptable limit) and if you are able to manage with the bubble problem it can be a solution. I will try a looped system on my MB 814 (with it’s engine that is the next generation of yours) wen I have the equipment needed and time.
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