[EcoBus.] MB1114. Bi-Carburation

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AlmaSana
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :Hi Alma,
Pool filters are definetly not compulsory!
I use a polyethylene blanket filter (sold for 5µm filtering) I fold onto a reversed 20 liter oil plastic jar with bottom cut.
The oil goes through the blanket, into the reversed plastic container and into a standard plastic container placed at bottom.
When the 20 liters have been filtered, I transfer manually into another container and add 20 liters in the blanket.
Dead simple and single stage, but it requires a bit of manning every day.

After settling, only use clear oil and let the rest settle for much longer time: you will get an extra 10/20% clear oil on top
Thanks a lot Joumpy,
I understood your single stage filter system. Y alredy bought all my system from dudadiesel.com
and i like to filter it those all stages, it will make the filters last longer and i am from Argentina
so its not easy to get micron filters... I can really filter oil fast. Its just time and enjoy it :)

I am almost done with the settings of the bus.
I only need to connect the solenoid valvs to the magic buttos but i have some questions with my system.
Maybe I need to change some things.


My systems goes like this:

Vegetable Oil System

VO Tank →Heat exchanger →Filter(500ml) →3 Way solenoid Valve→ Original Pump from Injection Pump → Original Filters (1Liter) → Security Computer Solenoid valve → Injection Pump → Engine


Diesel System

DI Tank →3 Way solenoid Valve→ Original Pump from Injection Pump → Original Filters (1Liter) → Security Computer Solenoid valve → Injection Pump → Engine


So the problem i see with this system when i push the magic button is that the vegetable oil will cool at the first 500ml filter, then it will have to wait for all the 1 liter filter to finish passing trough the engine, and start filling with vegetable oil (so it will cool more) and then it will go to the pump..


Should I change the vegetable oil system too? :

VO Tank → Heat exchanger → Filter 500ml → Manual Hand Bulb (Pump) → 3 Way solenoid Valve → Security Computer Solenoid valve → Injection Pump → Engine



Some Pictures of the Vegetable oil system:

Heat Exchanger (Inside beer cans)
Image

500ml Veg Oil Filter
Image

3 way
Image

Temperature Meassure going in the original Manual Pump from the Injector Pump
Image

1 Liter Original Diesel Filters - ( Next to it, the one with an arrow, the computer emergency automatic solenoid valve for when the engine Heats)
Image
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joumpy
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

Hi Alma,

I am afraid you forgot the other side of the fuel path...
The fuel pumps provide the engine with more than adequate fuel quantity. What is not used by the engine returns to the tank and will be pumped again...
It means that you have to care for the fuel to return to the proper tank: DI or WVO tank. an extra 3 way solenoid valve.
For a start, you can connect both valves to the magic button.

The modification to avoid using DI filters for WVO is a good one.
First for dead volume reasons but also for simplicity when filters will start clogging.
Make sure you take into account that no fuel pump will be empty on both DI and WVO conditions.

Start like this and chase bubbles and leaks.
After that, put a blanket around the WVO filter and hoses.

Make some calculations based on fuel consumption to determine how long before arrival you should return to DI fuel.

God bless
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :Hi Alma,

I am afraid you forgot the other side of the fuel path...
The fuel pumps provide the engine with more than adequate fuel quantity. What is not used by the engine returns to the tank and will be pumped again...
It means that you have to care for the fuel to return to the proper tank: DI or WVO tank. an extra 3 way solenoid valve.
For a start, you can connect both valves to the magic button.
My friend, i do have all set to return to the proper tanks, I have a 3 way solenoid valve to do it.
I didnt added to the post because i thought it was easy with the system i had.
But now i am going to modify the system i will need to post it and ask some questions.

There are 3 returns to the tanks.
The one that comes from the original DI filters (This one will not be a problem because it will go only to the DI Tank)
So i will send it straight to the Diesel Tank

Then the one from the pump injector itself and the one that comes from the engine will run though both WVO and DI
so this ones will be connected together and go to the income of the 3 way solenoid valve and there to either
DI tank or WVO tank with the magiv button.
joumpy a écrit : The modification to avoid using DI filters for WVO is a good one.
First for dead volume reasons but also for simplicity when filters will start clogging.
Nice So i will add a manual bulb (pump)
joumpy a écrit :Make sure you take into account that no fuel pump will be empty on both DI and WVO conditions.
Didnt understood this. But do you refer to fuel pump. Why witl they be empty?
joumpy a écrit :Start like this and chase bubbles and leaks.
After that, put a blanket around the WVO filter and hoses.

Make some calculations based on fuel consumption to determine how long before arrival you should return to DI fuel.

God bless
God bless!
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

Hi Alma,
Returns have been taken care of and the original pump of the injection pump will not turn dry. VERY GOOD!
A new concern about fuel pressure...
If you do not use the original pump of the injection pump for the WVO supply, you need another pump that can achieve the required pressure.
It would be better if you could use this pump for both fuels and only separate the filtering units: one filter on each fuel supply.
This way, filter clogging diagnostic is simple: press the magic button...
God bless
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :Hi Alma,
Returns have been taken care of and the original pump of the injection pump will not turn dry. VERY GOOD!
A new concern about fuel pressure...
If you do not use the original pump of the injection pump for the WVO supply, you need another pump that can achieve the required pressure.
It would be better if you could use this pump for both fuels and only separate the filtering units: one filter on each fuel supply.
This way, filter clogging diagnostic is simple: press the magic button...
God bless
So, ill try to do that, is quite a little more dificult because it has a strange output the original manual pump hose that goes to the diesel filters.

Question:
Filter must goes after the pump in the wvo system? is not requiered isnt it?

love and respect
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

So i am trying to do that system but i will need another 3way valve.

Why? Because i need to select before the pump and after the pump again.
is that correct? i do not have another 3 way valve...

Or, make the original pump appear after the diesel filter...
not its first the pump after the filters...
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

AlmaSana a écrit :So i am trying to do that system but i will need another 3way valve.

Why? Because i need to select before the pump and after the pump again.
is that correct? i do not have another 3 way valve...

Or, make the original pump appear after the diesel filter...
not its first the pump after the filters...
I'd been thinking. And found this system.

Image
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

This system will work just keep in mind that pumps are twice stronger when they push as compared to succion.
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :This system will work just keep in mind that pumps are twice stronger when they push as compared to succion.
I know that, but i am not able to think about another way to make the system
with that only solenoid valve i have... And i cant get another one.

Do you have any idea?
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

AlmaSana a écrit :
AlmaSana a écrit :So i am trying to do that system but i will need another 3way valve.

Why? Because i need to select before the pump and after the pump again.
is that correct? i do not have another 3 way valve...

Or, make the original pump appear after the diesel filter...
not its first the pump after the filters...
I'd been thinking. And found this system.

Image
Do you know if it will be to much pressure from the manual pump, that works too when the engine is on, to the pump inyector?
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Final system:

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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par joumpy »

Good thinking!
Final system looks promising
Le plaisir n'est rien si par la même occasion il n'emmerde pas quelqu'un d'autre :o
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :Good thinking!
Final system looks promising
yessssss! we are doing it! everything thanks to you comunity!
AlmaSana
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

joumpy a écrit :Good thinking!
Final system looks promising
So the diesel part finally worked after air problems.
One return was getting air when engine was on after i pumped all the air out.
So i just added a tap to open for air pump and close it for when motor is on.

Tomorrow is the D day.
Oil filtered, going to the route to give the engine a good warmp up and push the magic button.

Thanks
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Macromalhuile37 »

Extract from Radio KAOS by Roger Waters

Billy: Four minutes and counting.
Jim: O.K.
Billy: They pressed the button, Jim.
Jim: They pressed the button Billy, what button?
Billy: The big red one.
Jim: You mean THE button?
Billy: Goodbye, Jim.
Jim: Goodbye! Oh yes. This ain't au revoir,
it's goodbye! Ha! Ha!

Go Alma Sana Press the good magic button....
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Macromalhuile37 a écrit :Extract from Radio KAOS by Roger Waters

Billy: Four minutes and counting.
Jim: O.K.
Billy: They pressed the button, Jim.
Jim: They pressed the button Billy, what button?
Billy: The big red one.
Jim: You mean THE button?
Billy: Goodbye, Jim.
Jim: Goodbye! Oh yes. This ain't au revoir,
it's goodbye! Ha! Ha!

Go Alma Sana Press the good magic button....

It couldnt be, the oil didnt got to the adecuate temperature.
Less than 40 Celcius. It should be at least 50 isnt it?

Solution: add a plate heat exchanger and filter warmer..
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Tibo1987 »

Hey
well i guess you must be pretty disapointed ;
40 °C is a bit low indeed ;
however, if your engine has a in-line injection pump (which I believe); it should not suffer too much from the thick fuel
in fact; the WVO temperature could change a bit when you 'll push the button has the flow rate in the fuel lines will increase.
It might get down ...
I would say, as long as your fuel is of correct quality, you could run at 40°C WVO temperature. Of course by the time you run with this low temperature, you must start working on a solution to increase it, heat exchanger, heated fuel filter
etc. (just like you said)
Its not highly recommandable, but I bet if you run on WVO like this, everything should be fine!
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Tibo1987 a écrit :Hey
well i guess you must be pretty disapointed ;
40 °C is a bit low indeed ;
however, if your engine has a in-line injection pump (which I believe); it should not suffer too much from the thick fuel
in fact; the WVO temperature could change a bit when you 'll push the button has the flow rate in the fuel lines will increase.
It might get down ...
I would say, as long as your fuel is of correct quality, you could run at 40°C WVO temperature. Of course by the time you run with this low temperature, you must start working on a solution to increase it, heat exchanger, heated fuel filter
etc. (just like you said)
Its not highly recommandable, but I bet if you run on WVO like this, everything should be fine!
I am not disapointed Tibo I am really happy the solenoid works
and that the system is not dripping or getting air in the diesel part.
That the manual pumps helped me pump the air and more things.

I am so happy :)

Thanks for your advice, i thought it could damage the engine....
Not even 40 celcius i got, the neddle didnt move.
I think as you maybe when the oil starts to flow it will heat better.
The oil was not moving, i heat the engine and then pumped the "cold" oil from
filter... and the temperature meassure didnt move, it starts in 40C, is not digital.
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par AlmaSana »

Hey friends. Desire temperature for oil going to the engine?
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Re: [HELP-NEW] EcoBus. MB1114. Bi-Carburation

Message par Tibo1987 »

Hey alma
most of us will tell you values between 70 et 80°C celsius
the fact is the higher temperature is the best for viscosity (= pump safety) and combustion (= engine safety) ..
if you dont heat electrical (what most people dont) then you cannot go over the engine coolant temperature which is somewhere around 80 to 90°C.
What are you up to for your heating troubles ?
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